The Kajabiverse Podcast

Transcript

Well, hello and welcome to the Kajabi Verse podcast, where today we are very fortunate to be speaking to the incredible Anna Powers. Hello Anna. Hey, it's so exciting to be here. What a great little intro. Oh, I try, I'll probably come up with something a little bit more extravagant towards the end, but you know, we'll See how we get,

I'll prepare myself. Now, today we have invited you in to talk all about free multi-day trainings as a a strategy for getting people into your launch, which is something that you do so well and it's one of my favorite strategies, although I tend to term it as a challenge, but challenge multi-day training, free training series. I mean, there's lots of different ways that we could call it,

but before we dive into talking all about this strategy, if you could maybe just take a couple of minutes to tell everyone who's listening, what it is that you do, and who it is that you help. Yeah, so I am Anna Powers and I am a done for you copywriter. That's how I started at least. And so over the years I was building this business writing done for you copy.

I actually was practicing law at the same time. So I built the business up to six figures while I was still practicing law and then realized that I was turning away a lot more business in copywriting than I was actually, you know, the money I was bringing in as a lawyer. So I was like, oh, I should probably just transition. So in early 2018,

I went out on my own full-time in my business and I started building out coaching programs. So I'm faith centered, I happen to love Jesus. I'm always accepting of anyone's views and opinions, but that's my personal opinion. So I was building out these faith centered programs, coaching programs, and what happened Meg was in 2020 when the pandemic hit, so many people were forced online and all of a sudden needed so much copy.

And so while we had always been fully booked and busy and you know, it was only me writing the copy in my business for years, with the exception of occasionally on a bigger project I'd loop in a junior, but very, very rarely. So it was mostly me. In 2020, I started having to turn away so many people who needed copy and just refer them out to my colleagues,

which was fine in one way because I love people and I'm always happy to share the wealth. And I do believe there's an abundance of work for everyone. But on the other hand, sometimes I would be a little hesitant because these people that I was referring the work to, I haven't personally trained them. I know the kind of results that I've been able to get for people,

but I wouldn't always necessarily know how are they gonna show up? Are they gonna be reliable, consistent, meet deadlines, do excellent quality work? So I started mulling over the idea of a copywriting certification and I decided to beta test that in the spring of 2021. And we ended up bringing in $50,000 in a beta launch, which I know is not the launch that we're talking about today.

But I was like, okay, I think this thing has legs. And so we built it up from there. And the launch that we're gonna be talking about, we actually did in August of 2022. And so now I train and certify conversion copywriters in my Clickworthy copywriting certification. Say it seven times fast if I can. And it's delightful because there's so many opportunities in copywriting.

And so what we're able to do is teach people the skills, the principles, and then give them the tools to be able to master copy at a level where they can offer done for you services. And we're seeing results, like one of our clients who was a teacher said, in 10 years of teaching with a master's degree, I've never made as much money as I'm making on the side copywriting.

And that's just, you know, one example of many. So it's been really cool. And then when people come to me for, for copy, I just refer them to our certified copywriters. So it's like a win-win win for everyone. I did see on your website that you have like a directory of copywriters, which is a little bit similar to us.

I mean, we train Kajabi specialists and have the directory of the graduates and we're so passionate about that particular arm of the business because we're helping other people achieve the flexible businesses and just the success that we've had in our own businesses. So it's such an enjoyable thing to put your energy into. Yeah, Yeah, I love it. And that's just a little perk that we give to our certified copywriters.

When they finish the certification, they get listed there for a year, all of their profiles are there. You don't have to go through us to hire them, you literally can just click on their, they all have their, either their email or their services page. And so it's just a really cool extra benefit that we can provide to them by featuring them and giving them little piece of the audience that we've built up over the last eight years.

And again, just sharing that wealth and giving them some more opportunities. Oh, I think it's fantastic. And when, as far as the strategy of getting people into this certification in the first place, what is it that attracts you for the idea of having this multi-day training as a lead-in? Yeah, so I love giving credit where credit is due. So it was really one of my mentors,

James Wedmore, who first really started talking about live launching. That was the first person I heard. I know a lot of people talk about it now, but James was the first person that I heard start to talk about the live launch, the multi-day live launch as distinguished from the challenge, which we had done for years. So in my other program,

which is more of an entry level program, magnetic messaging, we had always done a five day challenge. And I originally learned that from, I think you might be friends with my friend Zach Sparkler, who I'm friends with, Zach, Yeah. So I've known Zach since, oh my goodness, 2015 or something wild like that. We were in a group together years and years ago.

And of course I think he's brilliant. So I had been launching with challenges and I enjoy showing up live. Like hopefully you feel that even in that interview. I really like that live connection. But what we started to notice over time, challenges were working really well for a while. What we started to notice over time was that as people got more and more just inundated with things to do,

and especially in the pandemic when everyone was already feeling kind of zoomed out and overwhelmed that people, if they didn't make it through like the first two days, they would just be gone. So it was hard to keep them engaged Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then for the webinar on Friday, which is Kind of this day three drop off where it's like,

where did everybody go? Yeah. Like they were, they were here. I, I didn't imagine it. So now you've got me wondering though, Anna, like what is the difference between a challenge and a multi-day live training? Yeah, So in the challenge, I would be teaching Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Normally I would do like a little action step email and then I would go live later in the day.

So it would be a little more bite sized, you know, maybe 30 minute trainings. And then on Friday I'd do a big webinar masterclass, whatever you wanna call it that everyone knows it's a webinar with a pitch. And I would open the cart and sell. So the live launch, the benefit of the way that I learned it from James, and I will say Meg,

a lot of my friends had done it before I did it. And even one of my former mastermind and one-on-one clients had basically doubled her already multiple six figure business just by switching her launch mechanism. So I watched what she did and I was like, Hmm, okay, okay, I think this is worth at least a try. So the live launch,

the way that I learned it is you're going live three times, but it's spaced out. So for example, we did a live on a Thursday and then the next Tuesday and then the next Thursday. And what that did is it gave people time. If they missed it, they could catch up. So in doing it Thursday, Tuesday, Thursday, you know,

between the one and two trainings they had the whole weekend. And then Tuesday to Thursday is pretty fast. But what we do also, which I also learned from James, is we don't open the cart on the last training. We talk about it, we kind of let people know it's going to open on Monday, but we make them wait. And for so many people,

does That make you nervous, Anna? That would make me nervous. You know, like It didn't. It didn't. Cause I had seen so many of my colleagues try it and be like, it feels terrible in the moment, but it works. So I had the, the benefit, I was not an early adopter of this style of launch and I told James after this launcher,

I was like, I will be your poster woman for this methodology. Like I will tell everyone how great it is. But Meg, there's a couple things that happen when you do that and you just serve, serve, serve, serve, and then you don't sell at the end and then you open it up on Monday and then you sell because there's a very clear delineation between service and offer and bringing people in and versus you know,

it can feel kind of, and I love selling as long as it's something that I believe in which I believe in our program wholeheartedly. I, I don't think selling is bad. I think selling is service. So in general, I'm actually pretty okay flipping from the value-based training to the offer part. But still like even if you're okay with it, you know that there's people there who are like,

when is the pitch? What is she gonna say? So you're kind of anticipating that and this pause between the training and the sale, it just, let me say yeah, we'll tell you about that on Monday between now and Monday, go back and watch all the trainings again, get Caught up so many people who sort of didn't get around to it.

Yeah, Exactly. So it gives people really two weekends because you have that first weekend and then the second weekend and we implemented really cool things like little giveaways, my executive assistant found this thing, I think it's called the wheel of Names. And so we just do drawings in our free Facebook group just for people who attended. Like if you attended, we just draw and give you a $50 gift card,

a hundred dollars gift card. We just gave out one cuz I thought somebody's attitude was really great. I was like, let's just give her a gift card. You know? So that kept people also engaged because you never knew when you might win a little prize just for being present. So it was a blast and it worked really well to bring the right people into the program.

It sits really well with me as a strategy because it's not, you know, pushy, salesy, icky. Yeah. You know, it's just, I do love that you are having that clear delineation between the service and the sell. Yeah, and I will say one more thing because I mentioned how the challenge trainings would be so brief, like maybe 30 minutes.

The live launch tradings, I went two to three hours on each one. I mean they were full. I know it's so cheesy to say they were value packed, but really I taught a lot of things that even if you didn't join the certification, you would benefit from it. Yeah. I even gave them an assignment to go post about starting to learn copywriting and start booking clients.

They could pre-book for a few months down the road when they actually had the skill. Cuz that's important. We wanna operate from integrity. But just to show people it was like we were able to demonstrate to people like you can get clients from one post when you have this skill because copy is a skill that all businesses need. I don't know of a single business that doesn't use words to sell its offers in some way.

I often think Anna, I should have done copy instead of web design. Like copywriters make such a good living, It's never too late. And if you can do web design and copy and all the techy stuff that I know you can do, like you are a triple threat should just add it to your arsenal. Why not Poor Hupa, You know,

who will be in your next live certification. I love it. Come on, you're probably gonna sign up tomorrow and be like, oh it's apparently it was closed but we gave Meg the link and all of a sudden she's here. I love it. Oh funny. Alright, so for most people having this free multi-day training would probably be top of funnel,

like the entry point into a launch. Do you have it as the starting point or do a lot of people coming into your launch, have they already consumed something else for free before they get to this bit? Yeah, both. And so when we, and I know I gave you a lot of our numbers and stats before, which is actually really fun for me to walk through.

It's so dorky, but I was like, some Homework, you know, go and look these all up. I Was like, oh my gosh I love this. It's tapped into my lawyer brain where you're organizing all of this stuff. So both. And so we had really three mechanisms of bringing people into the launch. The first was Facebook ads. So we put about $20,000 into Facebook ads for the launch and A lot of people just fell off the chair by the way,

like 20. Okay. So keeping in mind when we did the beta launch in the spring of 2021, we did not use any ads and we brought in $50,000 through that launch and we did a launch in the fall of 2021 where we put $10,000 into Facebook ads and we brought in, I wanna say about $87,000 in sales over the course. You know,

some people were on 12 pays, so it was over the course of the year. So I would not ever tell someone on a brand new offer put $20,000. I would, I would not do that myself. I would not recommend that. So I appreciate you pausing me there. But this was a proven offer. We also had killer testimonials and social proof.

Cause we had already offered this program for a year and a half. I mean we have people doing 10 K, 15 K, 17 k months as copywriters who were new when they started with us, new to copy. So we had a lot of social proof, you know, to be able to back up that this is a proven program, this isn't like something we're hoping,

you know, we'll get you results. So we put about $20,000 into Facebook ads, a third of our sales, we had 69 students total. But of those three did like an early bird sort of behind the, the scenes early bird came in through like past affiliates had just like a special connection or something. So three were pre-sold, which we weren't even trying to do.

It was just kind of like, oh yeah, you, you know for sure you wanna do it. We're ba we're gonna open the doors in two weeks. You know, here's a little link which we don't always do. Anyways. So three of those came in before of the 69, so 66 sales total in the launch. And a third of those were from Facebook ads,

like brand new to us. A third of those were from affiliates because we recruited affiliate partners and then a third of those had some prior connection to us. I've been in business for eight years, they were maybe on our list earlier for some of our other programs. And so we sent out, I don't remember exactly how many, but at least three invitations to the free live training series to my whole list.

And we had a small universe of people opt into the live trainings who were already connected to us. So it was pretty evenly split. Yeah, that's amazing. And do you feel that a lot of people who on your list already, do you get the feeling that they've been through some of your live launches before, you know, perhaps attended the challenge weren't quite ready and taken a couple of GOs at it before they were in a position to commit.

So we had not ever done a three part live launch format before. These were like completely brand new fresh trainings. Had they been through the challenge though, and maybe that didn't fill them with the same sense of motivation When we sold it actually in the fall of 2021, like the $87,000 launch approximately. I don't wanna, I haven't gone back and checked that for sure,

but somewhere around there that we just did a single webinar so we didn't actually dig into the tags to see how many of those 20, what would've been 22 ish, who posted who were on our list already, how many had attended that particular webinar. But I will say we do a lot of collaborations. I have friends in the industry where we did notice a lot of people who came in maybe had bought our sales page in a weekend program or they were magnetic messaging former students or they had like a launch program that I had done in a giveaway bundle or something like that.

So I would say yes, we didn't have really people from our list that I can recall who like never attended any training and then all of a sudden were like, this is the one. Because remember also most of our list was built like all my done for you copy was all relationship and referrals. I never really used my list to get done for you copywriting.

I did things like attend live events and join masterminds and programs that gave me relationships that got me the done for you copy. But our list was a lot of faith centered coaching people. So when we pivoted and turned off our faith centered mastermind or faith centered group coaching so that I had the space to fully focus on the certification, it was kind of like almost like starting over a bit with our list.

Which is another reason why we wanted to put so much into ads because we needed people who were specifically interested in copywriting. And a lot of our people on our current list, our list at the time, they were interested in coaching an online business but not necessarily copywriting per se, which they should have been because it's so important. But I get it because as a business owner you have so much on your plate a lot of times you don't wanna be the one learning copy,

you wanna train your team and PS we can do that too. We've taken about 17 team members of seven and eight figure businesses through the cert and trained them specifically to be able to write great copy for the businesses that they're a part Of. Great idea. And tell me, when you come to run this multi-day training live launch again, are you going to do it on exactly the same topic?

I can hear James now in my ears saying don't reinvent the wheel if it worked, do it again. Yeah, that's a great question. So we're definitely doing the same format with Thursday, Tuesday, Thursday. We've already got the dates marked out in January. Open cart will be January 30th through February 2nd and then the trainings will be the two weeks before. So we'll definitely offer the same three part live format.

You know, I'm a teacher at heart so I can't imagine that they'll be exactly the same. But there will be some key concepts that I'll definitely teach. Again, like I teach a concept on your hidden hourly rate, which you should never share with your clients, but really a specific pricing formula that will help you make sure, cuz this is where a lot of copywriters can get burnt out,

is that they're undercharging for the amount of hours they actually wanna work. And so we teach people to reframe looking at it from a dollars per hours perspective to looking at it from a value perspective. For example, I have charged almost $30,000 to write for a launch back years ago and the launch made more than $4 million. So when you look at that from a value perspective,

you know almost 30 grand. Gosh as a high school teacher, before I was a lawyer I made $27,000 in the whole year. That was my yearly salary. So when you look at it like whoa Anna, you charged what a lot of people make in a whole year to write one single launch. But then when you say, oh but they made more than 4 million,

it's like oh well I probably could have charged 60,000. Still would've made sense for them financially. Absolutely. And so that answers my next question, which was you're going to run this again in January. Yes. Is it in your mind a twice a year Strategy? So right now that is the plan. That's what we're planning to do is opening it twice a year.

At some point we'll probably move to once a year because we love to just be able to dig in with with people and serve well. And it's very challenging to split your time and energy between service and marketing at that scale. At the level at which we show up when we're giving the free trainings. I mean it is more than a full-time job for that month to six weeks.

So the max I would want anyone to try to do that would be once a quarter. But even that, I feel like you're just kind of always gonna be in that push versus, you know, it's a 90 day cert. So when we open it twice a year, we have a dedicated time for marketing and a dedicated time for delivery. So it's not like our energy is being split and when we're with our students,

we're with them. I mean Meg, we have multiple milestone assignments along the way and I personally have been reviewing all of the assignments like every single person's email and some of them are five pages long, every single person's landing page. I understand Anna, I understand. Yeah. It's like I ask my students, you know, could you just send in a five minute loom And sometimes you get a loom that goes on for like 30 minutes,

you know, and then multiple back to back. It's like, oh my goodness. And we're working on streamlining. For example, the final certification is an exam that has a grading key. So if the answer is what the answer is and like you got it or you didn't, so we're working on the milestone assignments, streamlining them more in that way so that it's just like completely objective.

So you live and learn, we're always tweaking and improving things. But all that to say it's days of grading for me. Right. And so if I were trying to market and do that, I just would not be a human. That would be nice to be around. Yeah. And do you find that running a multi-day training is more or less exhausting than running a five-day challenge?

Because I'm like goes for longer. So you've gotta moderate the Facebook group. Yeah. For longer. Yeah. But did you get a break in between? I find it actually. I loved it. And I will also say cuz we're gonna announce this publicly soon. We haven't to this point, but I am at this point 18 and a half weeks pregnant.

Yeah. With our First congratulations. Oh you had, You're the first podcast that I'm talking about it on. So when I was in the launch, Woo, That was week like eight to 10, which they say are the toughest weeks. And let me tell you, this is my first, oh I threw up one to three times a day every day from week six to week 14 with the exception there were like five days that I didn't throw up total in all those weeks.

And so Meg like I remember, I think it was training three, it was almost three hours. I would not let myself even take a sip of water because sometimes water would like activate the vomiting. I was like, I can't throw up in front of all these people. So we got off and I just jetted to the bathroom and like threw up.

Hopefully none of your listeners have a weak stomach. I'm sorry if you do. Oh no, they'll be fine. Take job users. We're all good. So my opinion is I still loved the experience even being 42 years old. So first child 42, you know, like nausea, like you wouldn't believe. And still I enjoyed it. So I actually,

I liked the live training part of the challenge, but this is on me, this isn't really a flaw in the challenge. This is maybe a flaw in the way that I used to plan my challenges is I would do things like teach them the framework for your electric elevator pitch. And I would say action step, post your pitch in the comments and I would get 300 people's pitches that I would need to make over before the next day.

That is not a fun way to really engage. So this, in the way that we do the live launch, they have action steps, but it's not action steps that I'm grading every single person's action step. It's like you're reporting back and you're sharing your results, but it's a different level. Like I'm able to just engage and teach and support and yeah,

go in and tweak and help. But I don't feel like I'm doing 3000 copy reviews in the course of a week like I used to with the challenges. Yeah, I find challenges, I mean I find them effective, but I find them so exhausting. And then if you don't leave yourself enough, break in between the end can't close. And when you're actually starting your program,

you roll into week one of your program feeling completely exhausted. Exhausted. Yeah. And I will say as far as keeping the pop-up Facebook group open, I hear what you're saying with like that's a long time for the group to be open. I was nervous about that. But because the trainings are spaced out, first of all, we just had the best people come in.

The energy was just, there was one person who made a snarky comment about some of you have typos, I'm an editor and you should. And I just blocked them from the group and like I'm like, you gone? Yes. I, the last thing I want is you joining my program. We do not wanna work with you. I I don't mean that in a mean way.

Yeah. It's just like that's not the energy. We're really protective of our community. And so if you're gonna come in and try to sneakily pitch your editing services, which is ironic because in copy you actually don't have to be grammatically correct. And that's a huge thing that I teach. So the other part of me was like, you obviously didn't even attend the training or pay attention you,

you have to unlearn a lot of the proper grammar to actually write effective copy and make it sound like someone's speaking rather than writing from a textbook. Oh that's a good lesson for me Anna. Cuz my social media manager, she tells me the same thing and I'm like, no, we can't possibly write it like that. You know it's gonna have a comma here and an apostrophe there and you know it's giving me a nervous breakdown.

Meg, you split those infinitives, you dangle those participles, you just go for it. But yeah, so with the exception of that one person, which it's so funny that I even remember, but you do sometimes remember like the ick energy with the exception of that one person. The people were lovely and they were so engaged that honestly I didn't feel like me and my team had to do a ton of engagement.

It was like, you know, I gave them prompts on the lives to share. So we would have like a prompt about like, hey Anna taught you the formula to calculate your hidden hourly rate. This is your homework is go into the group and share your hidden hourly rate and what it means to you and like any aha that you had around it and we would just get the coolest ahas and stories.

So I think it's all about how you frame up what you're asking people to do participation wise because really like their energy can lift up the group to where you don't feel like you're having to carry it. Yeah. Can I just recap or or go back to a couple of questions on numbers. You put $20,000 into ad spend to get this up and running.

Do you know how many registrants you got for that? Yes. So it was somewhere, I think I put this in the form that I filled out before we were talking, so I don't know if you have the specific number. It was somewhere around 2000 to 2200, somewhere in that range. It was 2020. 2020. 2020. Oh I remember cuz I was like,

what a fun number. It was 2020 redemption for that year. And then you had 1456. I remember looking at that came from the paid ads. So that was about your third and then you had 69 signups, which is brilliant overall. But 1456 came through from the paid ads, which gave you a 1373 cost per lead, which is pretty good for your industry.

So I don't think I actually did that math for the form, but I just wanna clarify that. Well the leads, while our sales were split a third, a third, a third, the leads were heavily weighted from Facebook ads. So we didn't get a third of our 2020 leads from Facebook ads. You mentioned, what was the number? 1400 and something 1456 came through from your Facebook Ads?

Right. So the majority of our leads came from Facebook ads and then a little chunk from affiliates and a chunk from our warm audience. But the sales were split pretty evenly across those three channels. Ah, interesting. Yeah. And what did you find were the most effective ads to run? Ooh, I'd have to go ask our ads manager about which ones worked the best.

Did you do crazy real style dancing, short video clip? No. And that's crazy that I didn't because I do not mind getting, you know how some people are like I shunt dance or pointing, I'm like, play that music, tell me where to point. I'll do it. You know, I'm an extrovert, I am an uninhibited extrovert. I will dance and point.

But no, honestly, just for time purposes and planning, because this is the first time we'd done this launch, there were a lot of pieces to create from scratch. So we did do some video but they were more simple like talking head video. We did do some retargeting once people were in, once people had signed up, we retargeted with like the new payment plan that we offered.

We did an extended payment plan midway through the launch, new bonuses that we were dropping, things like that. We had little video ads that would retarget anyone who was in the challenge. So I think those are always very effective. But I'd honestly have to check with our ads manager to tell you which one was the best. No worries. That's okay.

Just curious. But for those of you who are listening, we did run the numbers on the overall funnel conversion. So there were 20, 20 2020 registrants into the free multi-day training with 69 signups. So overall that funnel converted at a 3.4 Yeah. Percent conversion, which is well take it. Great. I mean anything over two is good. Anything over three is brilliant.

Yeah, I've always been taught, and I've shared with our copywriters, two to 6% is standard and it was a fairly, I wouldn't call it high, high ticket, but it was definitely not a low ticket. So the offer was $3,997 US dollars. So when you're running, honestly getting cold traffic into an offer at that rate, I mean I consider any sales a success.

Yeah. So to have that kind of middle of the road conversion rate from what you see as industry average for that price point of a program with that absolutely small of a lead up, we were super, super pleased with that. Yeah. Do you have a big hairy, scary goal for January launch, Hannah? We do, but I'm one of those people who I,

I will share our goals with the team and then I will share the results with the world and you know, Okay, once it's Happened, yeah, we're always super transparent. But yeah, we do have a goal to continue to build it out again because the need is there. You know, the need is there. Yeah. And so as long as we see that the need is there and that the students who come through the program are seeing success continually,

you know, will continue to grow that offer because that's in service to people like me who feel stuck in jobs that use a little piece of what they have to offer, but not everything. That's how I felt when I was a lawyer. It's like, well I'm tapping into my intelligence and my analytical brain, but my creativity is being stifled and then finding copywriting,

it's like, oh, I get to use my analytical brain. I get to be persuasive and put together arguments, but I also get to be creative and put in personality. So I believe so strongly in the need for great copywriters and so many more of them that yeah, we'll keep growing it. And for those people who are listening and thinking, yeah,

I reckon I could try this in my next launch online business. What kind of tech stack do you have to make all of this work? Ooh, good question. So we actually have quite a lot of things that is more a function of me starting the business in 2015 than it is that you actually would need all of these different things. But I'll just go through what we have.

So we put a lot of our landing pages, including our opt-in page for our three part live series and our opt-in page for a freebie, which was a guide to the business of copywriting that we now run. It's running every day at, at this point of this recording. We started running it maybe two weeks before the live launch, honestly, cuz it wasn't ready before then.

It's pretty massive. It's like 30 some odd pages and it's a lot of information and it was kinda like a little book I had to sit down and write. So those opt-in pages are on lead pages and then Could be on Kajabi, They could be. I will tell you, we've just tested so much on lead pages as far as our different frameworks that I'm kind of like,

if it's not broken, don't don't fix it. So that's why Kajabi, when I started didn't do all the things that Kajabi does now. Yeah. I barely missed the boat for the like founder's membership of Kajabi. I'm so annoyed at myself. Like the unlimited plan, I think I was literally like three months later or something and I remember someone tried to sell me his unlimited plan in a random group.

It's not somebody I really even knew. And I was like, I don't know this thing shady. And now I'm like ugh, I should have bought that from him. I guess that was le, I mean obviously if it was legal I should have bought it from him. But anyways, we just pay for it now. Well worth it. So lead pages,

we have that. But yes, you could totally put your landing pages on Kajabi if you wanted. Our main sales page is all built out on Kajabi. We love it. We invested with an incredible designer to build it out and we're so happy with it. Then our course itself or our certification program itself is on Kajabi. We also have integrated Kajabi with Circle.

I know Kajabi has some community features so that may be possible to do there as well. But we chose to go with Circle cuz it has that kind of Facebook feel but without all the ads and distractions of Facebook. Right? So our popup group for free was on Facebook just because that's where people already are. But once they're invested in the certification then we're like okay,

now they're gonna be willing to create a circle profile. I wouldn't put a pop-up group on Circle or Mighty Networks or anything like that just cuz we need to go where people already are. But my team found this cool way you literally can be inside the Kajabi portal and just click a little button and circle pops up. Which is so fun. It makes it so easy for our clients.

Can They actually like chat and stuff? Like while they're in the Kajabi product? Well what happens is a window pops up in the middle. Oh so you're technically on circle but you kind of like can see your portal in the background. It's like embedded on Kajabi, It's kind of embedded. Ooh, you have to send me a screenshot Anna. That sounds great.

Yeah, it's really cool. We also use ad event calendar for our calls. So we have the all the calls listed out in Kajabi and we share the replays. So the recordings of the replays get added to Kajabi. But just to make it easy for people to like click one button and have their calendar on their calendar of choice, we use ad event which we love.

It's pretty inexpensive that you can also embed on the side of Kajabi so that when people are in your portal they can just easily see all their calls right there, which is really fun. And then the other thing that we did, which was a huge up-level for our programs is we invested in Searchie and we integrate Searchie. We have two kind of Searchie widgets embedded in Kajabi.

One lets our students search all the content in the certification. So we have 10 modules and each of those has a bunch of different lessons. So if you're looking for a specific topic like results-oriented headline, you can just type in results-oriented headline and you'll pop up the video with close captions of exactly any place in the program where I talk about results-oriented headlines. So helpful because you never have to go,

where was that thing? You can just type it in the search. And we also made all of our calls searchable so that anyone can be like, oh did Anna talk on a call about this topic? And they can search and they can find if we did. Oh that's amazing. Yeah. So what else? Let's see. Those are the main,

is that not enough? Not enough. That's enough. That's enough. Yeah. And like I said, it's a lot, you know, we certainly did not start with all of that. Yeah, I mean if we had started a few years later and I was actually in a totally different niche in 20 15, 20 16, I found copywriting at the end of 2016.

So I mean we were kind of all over the place, but if we were starting later, pretty much everything that we mentioned you could do on Kajabi, like the ad event calendar, it's just a little supplement and having your course material searchable, it's again, it's a helpful tool for the students. But those things we've layered in over time as we had the bandwidth to implement them and also the budget to pay for them.

And you know, the bandwidth is a good point. Like I actually have Searchie, but it's a kind of an effort to get around to sort of uploading everything into both places. So I'm not very consistent with it. So yeah, my team, I bought the Searchie and then I was like, will you please take a few hours and dig around in tutorials?

Thankfully we have someone on the team who's pretty techy and so I think that helps a lot with bandwidth cuz if it were just me trying to figure that out, yeah, we might still be figuring it out. But the good thing is, you know what we do, we've gotten a lot better at this over the last year and a half I would say.

But we have a process documented. So it literally, like my team member who normally does this, that was her bonus was like time off so that she could have like extended time off that she was out. I was so sick. So I was doing my job and hers. And that's one of her things that she does is upload all the calls to Searchie in the correct place.

And it was just documented. So I literally just followed her Google Doc. That's up one step two. So it takes a little time, but as long as you have a process, it's super easy. Like super easy. And for those who are listening, now that you've been through this multi live launch, are there any online businesses out there where you wouldn't suggest this particular type of launch strategy?

That's a great question. I still think that in the fitness industry, I still think that challenges work really well because it's kind of an industry that lends itself to these like quick stackable action steps more than something like copywriting where you're gaining this skill and you're gonna use that skill for decades to come your business. So I think you can play the long game a little bit more,

but any kind of industry where it's all about the quicker results, which I know fitness, you can get long-term results as well. But you know, I'm just saying for example, I'm thinking of a challenge that someone does. It's like drink more water and then journal out your food. Like they're very bite size steps that you could implement in a week without overwhelm.

So I think something like that still work really well with a challenge. I will also say I think that a lower ticket offer, this is totally not tested, this is just my opinion, but I think a lower ticket offer for a challenge is easier because it's again, more bite sized trainings. And I think if you're gonna offer something that's, you know,

3000, 5,000, 10,000, having more space with someone is better. It's like the lead up. Just like having a podcast, I think having a podcast is such a brilliant strategy. We've had one since 2017, it's on hiatus right now cause we're rebranding. But it's like people can listen to you for hours and by the time they listen to all that,

they really know Megs for me or seems like a nice lady, but maybe not my person. And same with me. And so I think the live launch, if you're doing these extended two to three hour trainings like I did, it just gives people so much more time. That's nine hours of training before we even sell to them. Versus in a challenge it might be 30 minutes a day,

maybe three hours total for the whole week. That's a third of the amount of time that they get to experience what we could help them with. Anna, you've given me a lot to think about. I think I'm going to totally change my approach to the next launch after this conversation. I'm have to make some notes. Very exciting. Well look, I won't,

I won't keep you too much longer, but thank you very much for coming in and sort of showing us behind the scenes of what it takes to put together a multi-day live training launch for anybody who does want to connect with you, I'm gonna obviously put the links below in the show notes, but if they can't wait until next January, what should they do?

So we have a great free guide, which is our guide to the Business of copywriting. That's the little mini book that I wrote, but it's very valuable and even if you're just running a business and you just wanna learn a little bit more about copy, not to offer it as a service, but just to improve your own business. I have seven specific strategies in there that you can use to make more sales in your business.

So it's totally free. That's it Sarah, Anna Powers, no H on the Sarah. So s a r a a n n a p o w e r s.com/guide, G U I D E. And when you opt in for that, you'll be put on our email list and we send out at least two emails a week where endeavoring to add value, tell you about other cool things that are happening.

And when you're on that list, you know you'll be the first who's notified when we start the new trainings in January. Oh, exciting. I'll be on the list. I got onto the list actually with one of your other freebies, which I think is exceptional and that is your sales page template. Oh, thank you. Yeah, we still have that one.

That one's Sarah anna powers.com/stellar sales page. Okay. I'll link to that below as well. But it was so good, I just thought immense value in these freebies. Thank you. So guys, if you're listening, if you know that your copywriting needs a bit of a brush up, head on over to Anna's website and grab yourself all the freebies that you can find.

Thank you. Meg, this has been such a blast. Like I messaged Meg after I filled all the form with all the data and stuff before we jumped on. I was like, that was so fun to fill out. I just think there's so much opportunity right now and just I think the process of building a business is just so fun. It's like character development,

it's like perseverance and just really testing things. I think when you look at it from a playful lens of like, how can I show up and help people and make it really fun, which I just totally feel that from your energy Meg. I've just loved getting to know you through the dms a little bit better and having this conversation with you. So I'm excited for everything that is to come and your business and in mind.

Aw. Well thank you Anna, so much for coming in and we are wishing you all the best for the January launch and whatever that secret target is and but we are also wishing you all the best for your new arrival, A very exciting 2023 coming up for you. And once you've got that new arrival, maybe we can have you back to give us a bit of an update.

I would love to come back and tell you how in the world I'm an only child, so we'll see. But we're so excited. Yeah. All right Anna, thank you so much for joining us and we look forward to the next installment. Thank you. Have a great day.